I am doing a personal research project and looking for examples of how the Watchtower usurps Jesus postion. Scriptural or WT references would be great. Thanks!
Indian Larry
JoinedPosts by Indian Larry
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Looking for examples of how the Watchtower usurps Jesus position.
by Indian Larry ini am doing a personal research project and looking for examples of how the watchtower usurps jesus postion.
scriptural or wt references would be great.
thanks!.
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Ancient Israelites were the original JWs!
by serenitynow! inso sayeth the f&ds on page 26 of the 2/2012 wt.
under the title "why does god have an organization?
" it says "god chose the israelites to be his witnesses.
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Indian Larry
@ Blondie – Thanks for that post. I knew they orignally seperated the "Jonadabs" from the real "Jehovah's Witnesses" back in the 1930's but I did not know that continued in print right up through the '60s.
@Smiddy – Your comment about the average Witness not understanding reminded me of the lyrics of a Jack Johnson song I always liked called "It's all understood" . . .
I was reading a book
Or maybe it was a magazine
Suggestions on where to place faith
Suggestions on what to believe
But I read somewhere
That you've got to beware
You can't believe anything you read
But the good Book is good
And that's well understood
So don't even question
If you know what I mean
But it's all relative
Even if you don't understand
Well it's all understood
Especially when you don't understand
And it's all just because
Even if we don't understand
Then lets all just believe
But there you go once again
You missed the point and then you point
Your fingers at me
And say that I said not to believe
I believe
I guess
I guess it's all relative -
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5 Top Regrets Of the Dying.
by metatron inhttp://www.rense.com/general95/regrets.htm.
very interesting stuff.
makes you think about what's important.. metatron.
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Indian Larry
Great post! How true.
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"It's Ok to Lie"
by Azazel inmy turn on the soapbox.. .
well friends ive just gotton home from the special edition meeting, care of the enthusiastic circus overseer and what a great moral lesson his talk was tonight.. .
do you want to be a guest in god's tent?.
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Indian Larry
I have a question for Azazel (original poster)
If I read your post correctly you are "sitting in the back row" at the KH? If you are already DF'd why in the world would you still be going to the hall?
If you are on this board you are obviously aware that they organizaiton is guilty of false prophecy, hypocrisy, false doctrine, misleading quotes, lying, etc. etc.
Just wondering.
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Feeling down.... BIG time
by Free!! ini know i don't post here often.... i just lurk around and read most of the threads daily (from my phone)....but today is one of those days that i just feel like "blah"... i dont care about anything, i realize i dont have anything, all my friends are busy or with their own set of problems... and i just dont want to bother then.. it sucks..... i just need to vent, let everything out... i really want to scream, but i cant... i wish i could run away from everything and just start fresh, i feel like a failure and i just dont like me at all....i was so down a few days ago i was thinking about going back to the hall, because i feel so lonely... but i refused to let my depression make me do something so silly... .
thanks for even looking at this thread... i just need it to vent or i am going to explode.... :(.
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What's The Biggest Difference In Today's JWs And The Witnesses From Decades Ago?
by minimus ini believe today's witnesses lack zeal, resolve, "love" of the "truth"......just to name a few things.. years ago, witnesses were excited to knock on doors and tell people they were gonna die if they didn't accept paradise.. now, when you see jws in service, they all look zombied out.. it's a slowly dying religion that will last probably forever like an ancient rotted out tree..
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Indian Larry
I liken it to being on a deserted island. Decades ago....the brothers were marching up and down the sand....setting off flares and smoke signals.....staying up all night to do so because of how confident they were that they were going to see a ship on the horizon. Now....the brothers are kind of huddled in a cave.....doing what they need to do to survive......holding out hope that a ship may come some day.....putting a smile on their faces to encourage others....but in their hearts....they fear that they will never leave this cave.
Outsmarthesystem - That is a very good ananogy!
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Read S. Hassan's Book: Do JW's really fit the cult mold?
by simon17 infirst time i got a chance to read his book, "combatting cult mind control" and was interested to see if jw's fell into the cult mold.
my opinion after carefully reading and having left the witnesses after almost 30 years is... no, they don't.
however, i would add that they wish they were but are simply too big and unwieldy to really pull it off.
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Indian Larry
I too read S. Hassans first book, and based on the definition of cult in that book I would not say that the WT meets the definition of a cult. AS IT IS DEFINED IN STEVE HASSANS FIRST BOOK. I am not saying they are not a cult, I am simply saying that as that book defines the word cult they do not meet the criteria. They do meet the criteria in that book for high control group. Another thing that goes in favor of the WT not being a full blown cult would be all of the churn seen in the org. They are really busy trying to bring new publishers in the front door but just as many are walking (or kicked out) the back door. I would say most cults like the moonies for instance don't have as high of a churn rate as the WT.
Before everybody jumps on me, keep in mind I am not defending the ORG just stating an opinion. I also do agree with the person who mentioned how many lives they have ruined. That is the worse part of all, how they have torn apart families. It is sickening. I know some on this board no longer believe in God, but I still do. I believe that those at the top who are responsible for this will be called into account. At least I hope so.
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New CO talk: Be loyal to Org. even if you get weird instructions or can prove them wrong doctrinally!
by sir82 intheme was something about "loyalty to jehovah's visible organization".. i have neither the time nor inclination to summarize the whole thing, but a few points stood out:.
even if it causes you personal hardship.
example: joshua & caleb returned from spy trip to promised land with good report, but were "outvoted" by the other 10 spies.
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Indian Larry
The reason groups like the "standfasters" and other who stood up to Ruthefords lies are said to have "faded and came to nothing", is because they were following RUSSELLS teachings. Russell was rabidly ANTI-ORGANIZATION. If a group was to follow the same course as the bible students then they would not be expected to grow to a 6-7 million member organization. Those who dropped away from the organization back then (and those who do today as well) have no choice if they want to be true to their heart. The organization will at times make quotes like this that seem to say that the size of the organization shows that it has God's holy spirit is directing them. That is a false assumption though. If size alone was the determining factor then I would have to say that God is giving much more holy spirit to the Catholic and Muslim faiths.
As far as how these small groups that broke away felt about organizing. Here are a couple of quotes from Russell that would shed light on their reasons for not becoming the BORG.
"Many men of many minds have favored more or less strict organizations, and so we find Christians throughout the world today organized on various lines and with more or less rigidity, and each claiming advantages for his particular denomination or system of government. This is wrong!… The tendency of the human mind is either toward anarchy on the one hand, or toward tight organization and bondage on the other. The divine arrangement, avoiding both of these extremes, marks out for the New Creation an organization simple in the extreme, and devoid of everything akin to bondage. Indeed, the injunction of the Scriptures to each individual Christian is, “Stand fast, therefore, in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Gal. 5:1 " Studies in the Scriptures Vol 6
"...we have pointed out continually the tendency of Christian people toward union, showing, too, that such a union is predicted in scripture; but that its results, while designed to be good, will really be bad; and this because it will be a mechanical union instead of a heart unity."--WT, Mar 1893, p. 1504
"The endeavor to compel all men to think alike on all subjects, culminated in the great apostasy and the development of the great papal system, and thereby the gospel, the one faith that Paul and the other apostles set forth, was lost - buried under the mass of uninspired decrees of popes and councils. The unity of the early church, based upon the simple gospel and bound only by love, gave place to the bondage of the church of Rome...Each new reform movement (like Protestantism) has made the failure of attempting to make a creed just large enough for its prime movers." --WT, Sep. 1893, p. 1572
Those groups stood by their conscience and did what they felt was right.
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Have any members of the governing body accepted blood fractions?
by Indian Larry indoes anybody know if any members of the governing body and/or their wives have ever accepted blood "fractions"?.
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Indian Larry
Does anybody know if any members of the governing body and/or their wives have ever accepted blood "fractions"?
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Was The Internet The Clincher For You To Mentally Leave The Organization?
by minimus ini think it was for me.. i knew a lot of the history of the bible students, russell, rutherford and the "old light".
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once i could see all of the overwhelming evidence right in front of my eyes, there was no ignoring the reality..
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Indian Larry
Yes.